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 HN462532G blank after programming
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HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2017 :  15:48:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have succesfully programmed some Texas Instruments TMS2532JL eproms but now am trying to do the same with some Hitachi HN462532G's. They appear to write without issue but the verify fails. After all of this the chip verifies as blank. I have tried erasing some and trying again, same result. I have tried different writing speeds too. +2 results in a failure writing at 4%, 0 and below writes succesfully (but is blank afterwords).

I have tried various USB ports, cables, and an external power supply on the programmer with no change in result.

Advice? Thank you.

Writing... Buffer
Elapsed time: 12.90 seconds.
Device write completed OK
ID check skipped
Verifying... Buffer
Verify Failed, Address=0x000000, Device=0xFF, Buffer=0xF5
Verify Failed
Elapsed time: 3.10 seconds.
Reply #1

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2017 :  18:50:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I have succesfully programmed some Texas Instruments TMS2532JL eproms but now am trying to do the same with some Hitachi HN462532G's. They appear to write without issue but the verify fails. After all of this the chip verifies as blank. I have tried erasing some and trying again, same result. I have tried different writing speeds too. +2 results in a failure writing at 4%, 0 and below writes succesfully (but is blank afterwords).

I have tried various USB ports, cables, and an external power supply on the programmer with no change in result.

Advice? Thank you.

Writing... Buffer
Elapsed time: 12.90 seconds.
Device write completed OK
ID check skipped
Verifying... Buffer
Verify Failed, Address=0x000000, Device=0xFF, Buffer=0xF5
Verify Failed
Elapsed time: 3.10 seconds.



VPP is ok?
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Reply #2

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  09:54:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Voltage diagnostic is below. I should also mention this is a GQ-4x4. Thank you.

*****************************
* Testing VCC Without Load *
*****************************
VCC 3.6V test passed (code:0x6464)+
VCC 5V test passed (code:0x8484)+
VCC 5.5V test passed (code:0x938f)+
VCC 6.2V test passed (code:0xa2a2)+
VCC 6.5V test passed (code:0xa2a2)+
*****************************
* Testing VPP Without Load *
*****************************
VPP 3.6V/5V test passed (code:0x1b1b)+
VPP 12V test passed (code:0x4d4d)+
VPP 12.7V test passed (code:0x4d4d)+
VPP 15V test passed (code:0x6160)+
VPP 21V test passed (code:0x8484)-
VPP 25V test passed (code:0x9899)+
*****************************
* Test Completed *
*****************************
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Reply #3

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  10:47:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, but when programming the chip?
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Reply #4

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  13:25:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Yes, but when programming the chip?



How do I find out?
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Reply #5

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  13:33:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Yes, but when programming the chip?



How do I find out?



Multimeter?
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Reply #6

mandelbrot

3 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  13:47:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I have succesfully programmed some Texas Instruments TMS2532JL eproms but now am trying to do the same with some Hitachi HN462532G's. They appear to write without issue but the verify fails. After all of this the chip verifies as blank. I have tried erasing some and trying again, same result. I have tried different writing speeds too. +2 results in a failure writing at 4%, 0 and below writes succesfully (but is blank afterwords).

I have tried various USB ports, cables, and an external power supply on the programmer with no change in result.

Advice? Thank you.

Writing... Buffer
Elapsed time: 12.90 seconds.
Device write completed OK
ID check skipped
Verifying... Buffer
Verify Failed, Address=0x000000, Device=0xFF, Buffer=0xF5
Verify Failed
Elapsed time: 3.10 seconds.



I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.

I have tried in various PC with XP, Win 10, with no result.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #7

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  15:32:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

[quote]I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.



By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?
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Reply #8

mandelbrot

3 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2017 :  12:47:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

[quote]
By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.
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Reply #9

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2017 :  04:02:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tested again, VPP is 21 volts, with and without an external power supply. It should be 25v.
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Reply #10

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2017 :  08:09:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the programmer is putting out 21v instead of 25v then I certainly suspect that could be the issue. What is the suggested resolution?

Is there a way to make the programmer put out 25v?
Can the VPP be provided externally by use of an adapter that bypasses the programmers VPP?
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Reply #11

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2017 :  16:02:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
anniel? Suggestion?
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Reply #12

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  04:45:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

If the programmer is putting out 21v instead of 25v then I certainly suspect that could be the issue. What is the suggested resolution?

Is there a way to make the programmer put out 25v?
Can the VPP be provided externally by use of an adapter that bypasses the programmers VPP?



Do you have access to a lab power supply?
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Reply #13

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  06:51:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur
Do you have access to a lab power supply?



Yes
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Reply #14

ZLM

2923 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  14:54:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The VPP only on when needed during the writing. It is pulses when writing. So, the multi-meter may not work correctly in this case.

Since this is a confirmed chip in the device list, then you may need to make sure the chip has no problem. Many dead EPROMs has same symptoms.

The software voltage diagnostic check the actual voltage value.

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Reply #15

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  17:42:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know ZLM but a good multimeter can get an almost accurate measurement (a scope is better).

Yes a dead EPROM can give the same symptoms bu many flaky chips where revived by injecting VPP and/or VCC directly to the pins.

Yes the software voltage diagnostic gives the actual voltage values but borderline chips can draw more current than can be supplied by the GQ-4X.
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Reply #16

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  18:04:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks
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Reply #17

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2017 :  19:28:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks



Same GND, isolate the ZIF from the device VPP (paper or Kapton "V"), use only the write command.

http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8006
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Reply #18

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2017 :  13:03:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, I'll consider this as a potential option. Does the external VPP need to be injected at a specific time or just inject VPP, write, disconnect VPP?
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Reply #19

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2017 :  15:59:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, inject VPP, write, disconnect VPP. While at it also have a look at VCC.
After the write cycle(s) you can proceed to the verify command in a regular manner.
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Reply #20

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2017 :  16:14:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't forget to isolate the concerned pins.

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Reply #21

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2017 :  16:15:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

Don't forget to isolate the concerned pins.





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Reply #22

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  11:54:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I have succesfully programmed some Texas Instruments TMS2532JL eproms but now am trying to do the same with some Hitachi HN462532G's. They appear to write without issue but the verify fails. After all of this the chip verifies as blank. I have tried erasing some and trying again, same result. I have tried different writing speeds too. +2 results in a failure writing at 4%, 0 and below writes succesfully (but is blank afterwords).

I have tried various USB ports, cables, and an external power supply on the programmer with no change in result.

Advice? Thank you.

Writing... Buffer
Elapsed time: 12.90 seconds.
Device write completed OK
ID check skipped
Verifying... Buffer
Verify Failed, Address=0x000000, Device=0xFF, Buffer=0xF5
Verify Failed
Elapsed time: 3.10 seconds.



I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.

I have tried in various PC with XP, Win 10, with no result.



Bad chips?
Go to Top of Page
Reply #23

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  11:55:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

[quote]I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.



By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



That is certainly possible.
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Reply #24

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  11:58:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

[quote]
By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.



Another source is good to compare chip markings.
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Reply #25

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:02:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I tested again, VPP is 21 volts, with and without an external power supply. It should be 25v.



Maybe lossy chips.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #26

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:07:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch


If the programmer is putting out 21v instead of 25v then I certainly suspect that could be the issue. What is the suggested resolution?


Could be. Try some other 25V chips.

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Is there a way to make the programmer put out 25v?
Can the VPP be provided externally by use of an adapter that bypasses the programmers VPP?



Yes, an external variable voltage source like for reading difficult chips.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #27

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:08:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

anniel? Suggestion?



Yes, see previous post.
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Reply #28

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:10:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZLM

The VPP only on when needed during the writing. It is pulses when writing. So, the multi-meter may not work correctly in this case.

Since this is a confirmed chip in the device list, then you may need to make sure the chip has no problem. Many dead EPROMs has same symptoms.

The software voltage diagnostic check the actual voltage value.





All true.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #29

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:11:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

I know ZLM but a good multimeter can get an almost accurate measurement (a scope is better).

Yes a dead EPROM can give the same symptoms bu many flaky chips where revived by injecting VPP and/or VCC directly to the pins.

Yes the software voltage diagnostic gives the actual voltage values but borderline chips can draw more current than can be supplied by the GQ-4X.



Also true.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #30

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:12:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks



Isolate the concerned pins.
Go to Top of Page
Reply #31

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:13:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks



Same GND, isolate the ZIF from the device VPP (paper or Kapton "V"), use only the write command.

http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8006



+1
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Reply #32

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:15:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, I'll consider this as a potential option. Does the external VPP need to be injected at a specific time or just inject VPP, write, disconnect VPP?



Deselect every other commands and inject.
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Reply #33

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

Yes, inject VPP, write, disconnect VPP. While at it also have a look at VCC.
After the write cycle(s) you can proceed to the verify command in a regular manner.



+1
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Reply #34

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:18:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

Don't forget to isolate the concerned pins.





+1
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Reply #35

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2017 :  12:18:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

Don't forget to isolate the concerned pins.









+1
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Reply #36

HawaiinPunch

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2017 :  15:32:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To follow up I have concluded it's this batch of EPROMs from China. They are either defective or fake. I can read them, some contained trace data in strange patterns. I UV erased them and they were then blank... I have been unable to get them to retain any new programming though. I injected 25v VPP, all the way up to 28V even... no luck. I bought a vintage EPROM programmer that supports this chip and got the exact same result, won't take new programming. One interesting thing though... the vintage programmer detected some weren't blank after the GQ-4x4 said they were blank. It was able to reliably read data from EPROMs when the GQ found none. The reason for all of this? Who knows, and I don't really care. Moving on...
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Reply #37

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2017 :  12:41:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.
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Reply #38

mandelbrot

3 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2017 :  06:27:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!
Go to Top of Page
Reply #39

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2017 :  06:58:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf
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Reply #40

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:49:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I have succesfully programmed some Texas Instruments TMS2532JL eproms but now am trying to do the same with some Hitachi HN462532G's. They appear to write without issue but the verify fails. After all of this the chip verifies as blank. I have tried erasing some and trying again, same result. I have tried different writing speeds too. +2 results in a failure writing at 4%, 0 and below writes succesfully (but is blank afterwords).

I have tried various USB ports, cables, and an external power supply on the programmer with no change in result.

Advice? Thank you.

Writing... Buffer
Elapsed time: 12.90 seconds.
Device write completed OK
ID check skipped
Verifying... Buffer
Verify Failed, Address=0x000000, Device=0xFF, Buffer=0xF5
Verify Failed
Elapsed time: 3.10 seconds.



I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.

I have tried in various PC with XP, Win 10, with no result.



Bad chips?



+1
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Reply #41

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:50:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

[quote]I have the same problem programming the HN462532G. If I try to record at +2 it stops at 3% and if I try at a slower speed, it seems that it goes well but in the end verify fail at address 0x000000.



By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



That is certainly possible.



+1
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Reply #42

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:51:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

[quote]
By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.



Another source is good to compare chip markings.



+1
Go to Top of Page
Reply #43

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:51:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

I tested again, VPP is 21 volts, with and without an external power supply. It should be 25v.



Maybe lossy chips.



+1
Lossy Lucy.
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Reply #44

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:52:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch


If the programmer is putting out 21v instead of 25v then I certainly suspect that could be the issue. What is the suggested resolution?


Could be. Try some other 25V chips.

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Is there a way to make the programmer put out 25v?
Can the VPP be provided externally by use of an adapter that bypasses the programmers VPP?



Yes, an external variable voltage source like for reading difficult chips.



+1
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Reply #45

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:53:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by ZLM

The VPP only on when needed during the writing. It is pulses when writing. So, the multi-meter may not work correctly in this case.

Since this is a confirmed chip in the device list, then you may need to make sure the chip has no problem. Many dead EPROMs has same symptoms.

The software voltage diagnostic check the actual voltage value.





All true.



+1
Go to Top of Page
Reply #46

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:54:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks



Isolate the concerned pins.



+1
Important!
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Reply #47

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:55:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, I'll consider this as a potential option. Does the external VPP need to be injected at a specific time or just inject VPP, write, disconnect VPP?



Deselect every other commands and inject.



+1
Go to Top of Page
Reply #48

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:57:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

To follow up I have concluded it's this batch of EPROMs from China. They are either defective or fake. I can read them, some contained trace data in strange patterns. I UV erased them and they were then blank... I have been unable to get them to retain any new programming though. I injected 25v VPP, all the way up to 28V even... no luck. I bought a vintage EPROM programmer that supports this chip and got the exact same result, won't take new programming. One interesting thing though... the vintage programmer detected some weren't blank after the GQ-4x4 said they were blank. It was able to reliably read data from EPROMs when the GQ found none. The reason for all of this? Who knows, and I don't really care. Moving on...



China! Best place to buy back junk we send them as scrap.
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Reply #49

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:58:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



+1
I also have a nice collection of blacktops.
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Reply #50

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  07:59:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



+1
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Reply #51

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2017 :  08:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf



+1
Good docs.
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Reply #52

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2017 :  10:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf



https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/844209-smt-july2017/20
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Reply #53

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2017 :  06:47:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

Okay, so what do I need to know about injecting an external VPP? Thanks



Isolate the concerned pins.



+1
Important!



Yes.
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Reply #54

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2017 :  06:48:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

To follow up I have concluded it's this batch of EPROMs from China. They are either defective or fake. I can read them, some contained trace data in strange patterns. I UV erased them and they were then blank... I have been unable to get them to retain any new programming though. I injected 25v VPP, all the way up to 28V even... no luck. I bought a vintage EPROM programmer that supports this chip and got the exact same result, won't take new programming. One interesting thing though... the vintage programmer detected some weren't blank after the GQ-4x4 said they were blank. It was able to reliably read data from EPROMs when the GQ found none. The reason for all of this? Who knows, and I don't really care. Moving on...



China! Best place to buy back junk we send them as scrap.



+1
They recycle everything.
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Reply #55

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2017 :  06:50:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf



https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/844209-smt-july2017/20



No one is sheltered.
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Reply #56

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2017 :  06:03:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

To follow up I have concluded it's this batch of EPROMs from China. They are either defective or fake. I can read them, some contained trace data in strange patterns. I UV erased them and they were then blank... I have been unable to get them to retain any new programming though. I injected 25v VPP, all the way up to 28V even... no luck. I bought a vintage EPROM programmer that supports this chip and got the exact same result, won't take new programming. One interesting thing though... the vintage programmer detected some weren't blank after the GQ-4x4 said they were blank. It was able to reliably read data from EPROMs when the GQ found none. The reason for all of this? Who knows, and I don't really care. Moving on...



China! Best place to buy back junk we send them as scrap.



+1
They recycle everything.



True.
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Reply #57

supervizeur

462 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2017 :  06:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf



https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/844209-smt-july2017/20



No one is sheltered.



+1
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Reply #58

anniel

1996 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2017 :  06:03:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by supervizeur

quote:
Originally posted by anniel

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by mandelbrot

quote:
Originally posted by HawaiinPunch

By any chance are yours from China on Ebay? Mine are - I wonder if they are fake, re-labeled, or perhaps were over exposed to UV and ruined?



Yes, mine are from here www.ebay.com/itm/391516360336
If yours too, most likely they are defective eproms. I will buy some HN462532G eproms from another supplier and I'll tell you if they work.




I have buy another HN462532G set from other Chinese provider and this second time I have programmed them with no problem. The first batch was, as anniel said, chinese junk.


quote:
Originally posted by anniel

Classic China junk. They simply sand off the part numbers and print whatever part number has the same pin count and is in demand to get the most out of the stock the have. Even saw some chips painted black an printed over the paint and the acetone test reveals the original #. Some are more sophisticate and sandblast the chip and engrave the new part # for pricier chips, I have a few rare IDT RISC fakes like this.



Damn chinese fakers!



If you want a little more insight on fakes...

www.univ-st-etienne.fr/salware/Bibliography_Salware/IC%20Counterfeiting/Article/Guin2013.pdf

www.utdallas.edu/~gxm112130/papers/pieee14.pdf

h**p://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5458.pdf



https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/844209-smt-july2017/20



www.aeri.com/counterfeit-electronic-component-detection/

https://atadiat.com/en/articles/e-introduction-counterfeit-ics-counterfeiting-detection-avoidance-methods/
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